Episode 9 with Brenda Dunn (Art in Jest)

This week, I speak with Brenda Dunn (aka Art in Jest) about the skills developed through art and being a community-engaged artist. Brenda discusses the importance of relationships and social awareness in art and valuing yourself and those around you!

Brenda Dunn's bio:
"I make things. I also make things happen."

Brenda Dunn has been getting in trouble for crayoning on the walls for as long as she can remember. She eventually went to art school at the University of Guelph and drew on whatever she wanted.

She works and plays in Ottawa where she came for grad school and stuck around ever since. She learned lots of busy words during her Masters in English Literature, but it turns out she prefers the visual to the verbal when it comes to communication. You can see the things she makes at artinjest.com, or rifle through her digital sock drawer on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter all @artinjest.

She was hired into a corporate environment straight out of grad school and spent six years being a high-performing fish out of water. When the opportunity to change careers presented itself, she ran full tilt back to the arts and she promises never to stray again. She’s still super scared of cubicles.

She also doesn't totally get why these things are always written in the third person but concedes that it does just sort of feel right."

Transcript

Heather Woods: 0:02

Hello, you're listening to the SEL in Action odcast, the podcast where we xplore what social emotional earning and competencies look ike in educational and rofessional settings. I'm your ost, Heather Woods. And today e're speaking with Brenda Dunn, rt in jest a community engaged artist. And I'm so excited to talk to you. I've taken a few of your workshops and followed you on social media. And it's really exciting for to have you here. Thank you so much

Brenda Dunn (art in jest): 0:32

Thank you for having me. It's lovely to be here, Heather.

Heather Woods: 0:36

So what does it mean to be a community engaged artist?

Brenda Dunn (art in jest): 0:40

That's a great question. Um, so as an artist, a lot of people will ask, what type of art you do? and usually they mean, what tool Do you use, or what medium Do you use, and I, I do a lot of painting and drawing and a little bit of sculpture. But to be a community engaged artist, for for me means that I make things but I mostly make things happen. So creating something in and of itself, and then putting it up on the wall, or in a gallery, or sharing it on social media is a wonderful part of my job. And I'm very grateful to have it, I love it very much. And also, that is what I would consider a closed creative loop. So I am the beginning and the end of that loop, I make the thing I put the thing up and I say I made this thing, you can buy it, you can look at it, you cannot. All those things, my job here is done. And I am much more a fan of open creative loops, where I might start something or build something or ask something and try to get other people, general public, other artists, workshop participants. But lucky or unlucky passers by whoever tried to engage or interact or respond and make something with me. And I love both. They're both, they're both awesome. And again, wonderful parts of my job. But being a community engaged artists more often means that the people who are participating are as much a part of the creative process as I am and that I love that. I love that. That's, that's my oxygen.

Heather Woods: 2:21

Yeah, that's fantastic. Um, and so you mentioned like working with the community and working with people. So how do you go about building those relationships and creating that space where people feel free to engage in the process? Because, you know, art is sometimes something people are very self conscious about, and creating things. So how do you create a space where they're free to engage with you in the art and the process?

Brenda Dunn (art in jest): 2:50

That's a great question. Um, it depends, it depends on the audience. So a lot of times, the work that I do is very specifically with people who for some reason have a barrier to access, it could be financial, it could be because maybe they're not neurotypical, it could be geographic, it could be, you know, that they just haven't happened to be exposed to a lot of art or art making. And most of the time, in my experience, the reason that people tighten up and get self conscious around making art is because of a misunderstanding of what that word means. And I think for most of us, what we're exposed to, when we think of capital, a artist, is somebody who is meant to be thinking and working on this kind of very different, and maybe even higher plane, and they do something incredible and revolutionary. And those really special precious people get their most precious, special work cold and placed in a gallery. And we're supposed to stand in front of it, and kind of hold our chins, and not really pensively, and like, if we're all so special, then something really big happens inside us when we're looking at it. And I'm not saying that those things don't happen. And listen, they're amazing too. But for me, making art is a way of handling the world. And it is as much a part of my processing as eating and sleeping and drinking and walking and working and living. And I want to be able to share that with other people. So usually, for me, the first thing that helps is making a really safe, really receptive room and as much as possible, that's a room where we're all participating in a shared experience. So it's really important for me as a facilitator that I am as much a part of the process and I am risking as much and as vulnerable in that moment as the people who are participating and I try really hard not to ask participate. Pinch to do anything that I haven't also kind of tipped my hand on. So that's really important. And, um, you mentioned social media, thank you for following me on social media, a big part of my social media is, is being a bit silly. And being a bit tongue in cheek, even my whole persona online is art, in jest, as in just getting the little tongue in cheek, it's a little bit, it's a little bit funny, it's a little bit silly. It's still meaningful and important and wonderful. But the more often I can help people get past that self consciousness and move them to a place where creating is just something we're doing, as opposed to a means to an end, the the more we both get out of that relationship, and it is it is very much a symbiotic relationship. Mm hmm.

Heather Woods: 5:53

And you touched on, I think, a really important piece there. Regarding vulnerability, I think as you know, creating space and where people feel safe and kind of engaging that empathy, and everything, I think it really comes down to a facilitators or a leaders kind of own vulnerability and sharing that so that thank you for sharing that piece, because I think it goes a long way. And it's often a point that we overlook, because we might be self conscious, or we're trying to be the facilitator, we're trying to be the leader, so we have to be perfect, right?

Brenda Dunn (art in jest): 6:35

Or at least know where we're headed. You know, that's a big Yeah, that's an expectation, for sure. Yeah.

Heather Woods: 6:42

So I think being able to demonstrate that vulnerability goes so far in creating that space, and those relationships where people can connect and feel safe to, you know, get a little silly sometimes. Um, and so you also mentioned that, it's like, eating and drinking and breathing to you. And so I wonder if you can touch a little bit more on that interest. You know, using art as, you know, a way to kind of self regulate, and, you know, take care of ourselves that sort of thing. Can you touch a little more on that?

Brenda Dunn (art in jest): 7:19

For sure. So I think a lot of times the things that people connect with, and the workshops that I teach specifically, is that they're meant to be designed so that anybody can do them. They don't require any specific skill set, they're not predicated on people coming to the table being good at our bad at art familiar with art. And when you take away that idea, that you need to make something, quote unquote, good. Right away, you free people up quite a little bit. So you let them let go of the attachment to a particular outcome. And that can be super, super helpful, that can be really freeing. So a big part of the way that I use art making often is as much about the physical process of drawing. So some of the things that we touched on in the workshop is using the feeling of a pen or a pencil in your hand or moving your mark making device across a surface as a way to kind of ground ourselves back into our bodies, it can help us check in it can help us regulate when we're escalating for some other reason, it's some, it's a really, really good tool to use in your toolbox. And I do try to design a lot of those workshops, specifically around people getting tools for their toolbox, and emphasizing the idea that everybody is deserving of good tools. Everyone is deserving of good coping strategies. So oftentimes, I teach to at risk youth or, you know, members of the mental health profession, teachers, there's often a lot of medical professionals that are in that practice. So a huge range of people that for whatever reason, would really benefit from the ability to ground themselves, find some kind of center or find some kind of calm and whatever tools we can provide people to do that, the better. And I'm really transparent in the workshops that these don't have to necessarily be the first thing you go to, they don't even have to be the 10th that you go to if counting backwards from 10. looking deep brass is what gets you there quicker, amazing. And I just want everybody to have all of the tools that exist at their disposal because we are all deserving of of those tools. And drawing is just a great line into that. It's also a really great way to process so When you take it a little bit away from just the kinetic, and the physical act of moving your hand on a page and a little bit more into the idea of using drawing as a means of storytelling, or narrating, it can also be a really powerful tool for taking things that exist inside us that are maybe convoluted, or maybe that we're struggling with and just putting them in a place outside of our body. And there is a lot of great research and a lot of arguments for why that can be a helpful and a healthy thing. And drawing is just another tool to have in your arsenal to be able to do that with as much ease in facility as possible.

Heather Woods: 10:40

Mm hmm. Certainly. And, yeah, I mean, just having that that toolbox, I think, one of the things that, so I work with teacher, teachers, I work at the graduate level two, their teachers, their administrators, their health professionals, and in my social emotional learning courses, I think that is, one of the pieces that they really take away is the importance of that grounding, and just that self awareness, within themselves to be able to, you know, take a step back, reflect, to work through something that sort of thing. And, as someone that's always been a little more creative, I really appreciate that you've made those connections to art and and working with that with similar populations.

Brenda Dunn (art in jest): 11:33

Those are the populations I think a lot of times that sort of naturally, self select, to want to keep those muscles in shape. So some of it is the fact that it's selection, but also when I'm brought in as a facilitator to work. You know, I've done some work with the Children's Aid Foundation, the adoption Council of Canada, Ottawa, inner city arts, like there's a lot of groups that are seeking out the tool to offer to a specific population, and there are a lot of populations who are naturally self selecting to seek out the tool. And I just want to make it downhill from there in either direction. or someone's looking for it for you. That's amazing. We'll try to make it easy for that point. Oh,

Heather Woods: 12:15

yeah. And so I wonder also, um, you know, as we're facilitating and kind of helping others work through, you know, either coping strategies or having that toolbox, building their own self awareness to build through things. As an artist, what what self awareness skills do you find that you're really engaging with? You know, whether it's, you know, just knowing yourself, knowing who you are, and how that conveys through your work? Anything there that might be, you know, of interest for you?

Unknown: 12:53

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think being being an artist or being a kind of a professional creative. it necessarily means sort of being a meta participant in your own life. So a big part of where my content comes from is the ability to observe myself and my own reactions, that's a really useful skill, it's a huge part of what I need my brain to do to be able to notice. And in order to notice, there are other needs that I need to make sure are met. So I'm better at being a professional creative when I monitor my own self care when I try to make sure that my own inputs are equal to or greater than my required outputs. I also make really conscious choices that most of the time when I'm putting out content, a huge part of my social media is actually comics and I keep a really similar format to all of my comics, they're always four candle comics in a square Instagram is my social media weapon of choice. So you know, that's, that's kind of the format dictates the form a little bit. But in almost all of those comics, a huge part of that is observing kind of the minutiae, and the everyday of myself and my reactions and a big part of what I love doing in those comics is pointing out things that we kind of all have in common, but also where typically I'm the butt of the joke in almost all of those comics. So the ability to observe myself for better and for worse and to take my work really seriously but myself not at all seriously is a really good balance for me to make sure that I feel comfortable and healthy and joyful in sharing things that are not flattering, that are very silly, that are self deprecating without being unkind, and that's something that I really try to make sure as part of The ecosystem of any room where I'm teaching, we want to make sure that wherever possible, we're being kind. And that we're observing ourselves and processing in a way that belongs to us and doesn't necessarily kind of attack someone else or or put the blame or assign an outcome to something outside of ourselves not because we can't feel those things, feelings or facts, absolutely feel your feelings. But also, if at all possible in this sort of never ending quest to stay grounded, observe myself and then let it go, I find it really helpful to name the things about myself that I think are funny and silly, put them out for the world to see. Because invariably, you got hundreds of people that you didn't even know to call my gosh, Me too. Me too, to weigh me to also more so are like me to almost Let me tell you about the funny thing that I did. And there is nothing more validating and reassuring when you're trying to process and dump some of this stuff and let it go then to have all of these people again, for me anyway, to look at something and go. Absolutely. I see, I see that I do that I see me. And I think creatives often that's just part of our instinct is to hold things up and say anyone does anybody. Does anybody having this? Also, does anybody recognize this? And to have the rest of the world go? Actually? Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do recognize that. So

Heather Woods: 16:29

yeah, no, that's fantastic. And one point that stood out there is the self deprecating, but being kind to yourself at the same time. It's, it's a delicate balance, I think, you know, like,

Brenda Dunn (art in jest): 16:45

clocks, sort of how you feel. Also, I really close watch on how do I feel? After I tell this joke? Do I feel bad? Because if I feel bad telling it about myself, probably someone else is going to feel bad about me, talking to them. And and I, I tried to imagine my audience as much as I imagined myself as a person whose opinion I value and whose respect I want. And I see no reason not to pay myself that same kindness in the interest of keeping that relationship healthy. Why would I not try to use kind words, when I'm talking to myself? The same way I would be else?

Heather Woods: 17:25

Yeah, exactly. And so I think one thing that I want to touch on is kind of the relationship building that is involved in being a community engaged artist. So I think, you know, there's, for anyone that's kind of looking at this, it's, it's how do you start making those connections? And I know, you have quite a few connections within Ottawa, like with maker hosts and different wallets, different kinds of institutions within our city. So how do you go forming those relationships that are, you know, fruitful to each other? And, you know, give you a platform to do the work that you do?

Brenda Dunn (art in jest): 18:06

Yeah, um, I mean, there's a few. There's a few ways. And I think, I think one of the things that's important to keep in mind is that they really are relationships. And like any relationship, it must be nurtured and mutually beneficial in order to be healthy. So I have relationships with individuals that are friends or colleagues. I have relationships with organizations who have supported me, I have relationships with businesses who have provided spaces or platforms, or access and open doors. And in all of those instances, I try really hard to be mindful of what I am bringing to the relationship the same way I would to any individual friendship or relationship or interaction with a workshop participants. So if we're talking sort of early career choices, I would say one of the smartest things that I can suggest is volunteering, find the people who are doing the work you would like to do and join them and offer to do the things that other people don't necessarily want to do. So when I first started I, I was a member of the young arts leaders collective, I now act as kind of an ambassador for them through arts network, but I also volunteered with arts network Ottawa, I did some volunteering for events at the Ottawa Art Gallery. Anytime there were events or spaces, I would try to make myself available. I helped do some organizing of an art space festival in our neighborhood and all of those things allowed me to build relationships to people where I was really making sure to offer value because before I ask for something or need something, it's a beautiful thing to be able to Say, can I help you with that? And can't say, Can I help you with that? Because sometimes we don't, we don't have that option. The next best thing is to say, Can I ask your opinion, people love to be asked what they think. So if you see people that are doing work that you admire, ask them for an informational interview, ask if you can find out a bit more about how they got to where they got most people really, really treasure, their story, because it's the thing that they worked the hardest for. And if you can sincerely go to someone and say I would so benefit from your story, if you were comfortable sharing it with me and mean it, don't do it, if you don't mean it. But if you mean it, a lot of people are incredibly generous with their time, their experience. So I think that was a huge part of building a lot of those relationships. And once I had been able to do that I still now and always learning from the partners that I work with what is beneficial to them and their community and making sure that there is something of value that I can add. So if it's businesses, I try to think of what might add value to them in their spaces, or what might be something that would engage their audience, or is there a way that I can be celebrating them as a partner or showcasing a product or shouting out just the fact that they're good citizens of the community to build awareness and, and all of those things are things that a business will often really see value in and social media is, has made that accessible to everybody being able to offer people cool things to put in their social media feed, oh, my goodness, everybody loves that. It's wonderful. It's a wonderful thing to do. And, you know, when I'm working with organizations, I, I try to think really mindfully about what would be beneficial to their members. And I try to pick partners who know the people accessing their services really, really well. So you know, I've done some work with a program through the children's aid in Ottawa, and the facilitator of that program knows her participants so well. And I would trust her completely, to understand what would be a value to her participants. So she comes to me with a project or a program, or a suggestion, I will do everything I can to build something that will be a value to her and her participants. And I will offer it to her and say, comb through this, have one of your participants comb through it, tell me if you feel like there's value Tell me if you feel like we're on the right track, and the people who are doing really, really good work in the community, they're the ones that will naturally gravitate to that kind of relationship, and they will return the favor inclined. And then this hopefully, really beautifully balanced relationship that serves everybody and takes advantage of nobody just like a good relationship should.

Heather Woods: 23:15

Yeah, certainly. And I think it the people that you're working with, and what you're looking for in those organizations and relationships reflects kind of how you engage as well with like your, you know, participants in a workshop and everything right is is really connecting and getting to know people certainly, are there any skills that you kind of have seen really evolve over your career as a community engaged artist? It's a big question.

Unknown: 23:48

That's okay, we're not here for the little ones. He wanted to know my favorite call it done it on Instagram. Um, you Yeah, I, you know, I came to my career as a community engaged artist with some experience in corporate environments and some experience in the mental health field. So I brought some of those things to the table. And those skills continue to serve me very, very well. And I'm immensely grateful to the places and people that honed them in me because those can really be superpowers, the artistic community, especially the business stuff. But the things that I've noticed really evolve over the course of my career in the arts, that I didn't necessarily have a social media. For starters, I did not have a great understanding of social media when I first started this and having an online presence and to your point, being able to put something out that brings back the type of partnership that I'm looking for. For is really, really valuable. And a big part of that, for me is authenticity. So you know, art and just is the the online presence, but it's also me I am that brand. And it's really important for me to be as authentic as possible because everything that I'm putting out is going to be a reflection of the type of experience that people are going to get if they hire me to facilitate or do a team building exercise or run a workshop or even commissioned me for an art piece. And I want people to know that and be excited about it going in, it is mutually beneficial for us. And people are fast to get what they signed on for. So learning how to balance that authenticity, especially in the social media space, and learning how to curate my vulnerability in a way that is sustainable, especially because it is the internet, you know, I'm really lucky to exist in a super positive, supportive corner of the internet, but it is still the internet and also honing my ability to manage and balance making the work with documenting and sharing. That's something that takes a lot of practice. And some days are better than others for sure. But being able to share authentically, and do so in a way that is still really sustainable for me, I think is something I had to really, really practice.

Heather Woods: 26:40

Mm hmm. Yeah. And I mean, that takes a lot of, you know, self awareness and reflection of like, what works for you and how you want to, you know, be authentic? Well, what does it mean to be authentic? And, you know, I think that that requires a lot of self knowledge. In that process. Anything else that you kind of want to add about, you know, art or the power of art in, you know, self awareness and self management? any of it.

Unknown: 27:13

I mean, it's a superpower, for sure, but it's a superpower that we all actually have and have access to. And, and one of the things that I think I would want to emphasize this, that it's not magic. It's not unattainable. It's not rooted in talent. It is something that is available to everybody, it is absolutely something that everybody could do. And if it's of interest to you, if it is of a benefit, then it's something that you deserve. The idea that this is something precious or special or esoteric, I would just want to do away with that idea. I know a gallery can seem intimidating, they don't do it on purpose, they're trying to give the ground up. Beautiful works deserve, it doesn't mean that you're uninvited, and a big part of community engaged artists making sure that everybody is invited to the table. So if if that's something that's of interest to you, I would strongly encourage everybody to just step through that moment of discomfort if you can, and just pick up a pencil. I there is there is no more radical act of self care than doing something that makes you uncomfortable, and then standing in it and owning it. We're so deserving of that feeling.

Heather Woods: 28:39

Yeah, certainly pick up the pencil, throw some paint around whatever it might be. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for sharing today. It's been a really great experience talking with you. I mean, I am a lifelong dabbler in art history and stuff and often hesitate to put artists but I'm getting more comfortable with doing it on kind of my, you know, BIOS and stuff. But yeah, you know, and I think we touched on so many aspects of, you know, the value of art and being an community engaged artist and what that means and the level of self awareness and kind of relationships that you're building, not only to build yourself as like having the connections to be able to provide for the community, but also just within the spaces that you hold with other artists and participants. And so, so important and just kind of the value, as you mentioned, you know, with Instagram with sharing your comics, that sort of thing of valuing others, but also valuing yourself and I think that is huge. So I really appreciate you taking Taking the time to speak with me today. Um, if you want to connect with Brenda, I believe it's our ingest on pretty well every platform.

Unknown: 30:10

Even if you just Google Art ingest ART i n JEST. It's me, I come up. It's just my face all those things. It's all been

Heather Woods: 30:20

fantastic. Thank you so much, Brenda. And I'm sure we'll be connecting again soon.

Brenda Dunn (art in jest): 30:28

It was my pleasure, thank you

Heather Woods: 30:30

Thank you. And so you've been listening to the SE in Action podcast, the podca t where we explore what soci l emotional learning looks li e today in the art world. And s, if you want to learn more r engage in discussion, feel fr e to connect with us on Instagra, Twitter, or Facebook or t e website, SEL-in-action.com And, you know, we feel free o leave a review on Apple podc sts and we hope to talk to yo soon. Bye bye.